Meta: Lifetime of an idea. 1, 2 & 3

Maybe it is an overreaction. My perception is that there’s a group of people in this forum as part of their job[1], while the rest of us are in this forum to avoid doing our jobs :sweat_smile:.

For the “job” folks, the SNR of Ideas is interfering with their ability to do their work. For everyone else it can just be a mild annoyance. Improving the separation of serious ideas from idle musings is most useful for e.g. core devs who might sponsor a PEP.

The move from a mailing list to Discourse probably exacerbated this by greatly expanding the audience of people who can find and participate in discussions. It’s a welcoming community, it seems like a great place to start any discussion you can think of. But there are multiple use-cases operating at cross purposes.


  1. not necessarily full-time, but python development is a professional responsibility ↩︎

3 Likes

I don’t think it’s that hard, because people who have serious ideas without access to “Proper Ideas” are still welcomed to post them in “Proto-Ideas”. Their post can be moved to “Proper Ideas” at a moderator’s discretion, with the help of community flags to get their attention.

To address this, I suggest that once someone has made a proto-idea that is moved to “Proper Ideas”, we grant them permanent access to it as well. The idea is that if they have written a high-quality idea once, we expect that they’ve understood the standard and will keep that standard for future posts. This way, “Proper Ideas” is not a closed category, it’s just restricted to trusted people, and this trust can be gained purely by good behavior on this forum.

I expect 90% of users who are capable of writing high-quality ideas will eventually have access. They just have to go through this “graduation” process.

(Of course core-devs automatically have access without having to go through this process.)

Nope, we’re all here as volunteers. Personally, I participate because I like talking to people about ideas for improving Python. I help newcomers because I want them to share the enjoyment I feel, and maybe get as much from contributing to Python as I have over the years.

What completely discourages me is people who act as if it’s my job, and that they have some sort of right to leave doing the hard work (researching the practicalities of implementing a proposal, any previous discussions, how it would fit into Python, etc, etc) to others. That’s when I wonder why I bother.

You’re expecting a lot of additional work from the moderators. Community flags will be of limited value, because the people whose views would carry the most weight are precisely the people who won’t want to follow the “Proto-Ideas” category.

1 Like

I don’t think it’s any more than now. Now everyone posts in Ideas and moderators have to move unqualified posts to Help; what I suggest is the reverse.

You didn’t say anything about moderator work to @jamestwebber’s suggestion, I didn’t expect you would for mine, because I basically agree with his idea. What I add is that once someone has had a post moved from Proto-Ideas to Proper Ideas, they should be granted permanent access to it as well, which will reduce moderator’s work, not increase it.

No, moving between Ideas and Python Help is something that trusted users can easily do, which just means that person is an active participator. An actually restricted category would mean more work for the 4 (?) actual moderators. Unless ofcourse you mean “restricted to trusted users”, where I am not sure how valuable that is all-in-all.