# Python and OpenSSL FIPS mode **URL:** \ **Category:** Ideas\ **Created:** [April 19, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://discuss.python.org/t/python-and-openssl-fips-mode/51389 "2024-04-19T14:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 7
**Author:** ![stratakis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex002/user_avatar/discuss.python.org/stratakis/32/19150_2.png) [@stratakis](https://discuss.python.org/u/stratakis)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 9:57pm UTC](https://discuss.python.org/t/python-and-openssl-fips-mode/51389/7 "2024-06-11T21:57:33Z")
> [@gpshead](#): > > The OpenSSL ones don’t provide the complete API necessary to be hashlib compatible so we should not use them - I don’t want to see new code that doesn’t support the entire API added to CPython. > > Just have them raise an error if `usedforsecurity=True` when in “FIPS mode”. There is no added value in exposing them from OpenSSL builds that oddly support them. I agree that exposing them from OpenSSL is undesirable as they lack features. Raising an error sounds reasonable here. On a semi-relevant note here, compiling Python without the internal blake2 implementation results in various [test failures](https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/1453/builds/142). > [@gpshead](#): > > I don’t like this one. Hash-based .pyc validation is **not** a security feature. The fast hash is not being used for security. Disabling it just hurts the rare-ish users who actually use validated hash-based .pyc files (it isn’t the default) in their deployments. If you are disabling just this, you really should disable all use of .pyc files entirely. A timestamp + size comparison is just as much a not-for-security hash as sip24 is. It’s just that nobody put “hash” in the name of that comparison. I’m in the process of the removing this part of the patch as it was an overkill and siphash is not used in a security context here. > [@gpshead](#): > > `hashlib` is moving in the direction of potentially not using OpenSSL at all in the future in favor of only supporting [the new HACL\* based built-ins](https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/99108). If we do get to that point, keeping `_hashopenssl.c` around won’t make a lot of sense… > [@gpshead](#): > > Note that [the HACL\* hash implementations](https://github.com/hacl-star/hacl-star) are also in the formally verified camp, just not by the US Government’s National Institute of Standards and Technology. Someone $enterprising could presumably make that happen so that they get a US NIST seal of approval similar to the one [the OpenSSL fips module claims to have](https://www.openssl.org/docs/fips.html) - assuming that is what this is _really_ all about. Reaching that point is a long-term goal and replacing the internal digests implementation is a different thing than stopping supporting openssl or other cryptographic libraries. And if that point is reached the discussion will be entirely different in scope. > [@gpshead](#): > > This patch set seems to be going beyond OpenSSL by trying to prevent things not in OpenSSL from doing their job. At that point it ceases to really be “OpenSSL FIPS mode” and turns into a feature “CPython FIPS mode sponsored by $Vendors X,Y,&Z”. Which is _plausible_ as a feature request but needs an explicit definition of scope and buildbot(s) that explicitly tests such a build and environment validating that things that should not work do not, and things that should do. With engaged contributors who’ll work to keep that stable as the codebase evolves. As noted in the initial post, I’m already providing 2 buildbots that test the FIPS mode functionality. And I’m quite well versed in this part of the codebase and as mentioned by @vstinner we’ve been maintaining those patches for years. With the buildbot testing I don’t think it’s gonna be a big maintenance trouble. > [@gpshead](#): > > It isn’t the kind of thing that the open source community is likely interested in maintaining on their own (it’s someones interpretation of one government’s bureaucracy). So a goal I’d recommend is to make understanding of the scope and maintenance of code that dances around such a self-limiting feature as easy as possible. Most people never want to think about it at all. All of the existing OpenSSL FIPS mode support within CPython today came from people specifically employed to make it happen, RedHat primarily. Would starting with a PR with (almost) all the changes incorporated to provide a better overview of the scope make sense? --- _[View the full topic](https://discuss.python.org/t/python-and-openssl-fips-mode/51389)._