Why I'm leaving discuss.python.org

[brettcannon]

@Rosuav

So… you COULD delete posts but usually don’t?

Correct.

@Rosuav

Is there any kind of indication given if a post is actually deleted

I think the mods see something.

@Rosuav

this seems like something that would be very dangerous if someone mis-clicks.

If I’m remembering correctly you have to confirm a deletion via a second modal.

@Rosuav

The mere fact that it is possible for a post to be deleted and completely excised from history makes me uncomfortable.

I don’t want to wade into legal stuff, but there may be a situation where we have to. People are obviously welcome to make backups of the site if they want a more complete record than the PSF keeps.

@kknechtel

This makes it far harder to register an actual complaint that has any actual weight behind it. It takes many more words to explain what “abysmal behavior” looks like than to register that opinion. But praise is easy, and nearly always falls on the good side of any CoC.

I personally don’t consider that a bad thing. One of those types of comment can be hurtful while the other isn’t. I think you should always put more effort into your words if they can cause harm for someone else.

@kknechtel

I understand that it’s nice to be able to have constructive criticism. But nobody is entitled to be shielded from the disapproval of others.

Correct, but there’s a difference between constructive criticism and being rude in how you deliver your criticism.

@kknechtel

Because of the lack of openness.

I don’t know of any CoC enforcement that doesn’t have some form of privacy which means not everything is shared on purpose.

@MegaIng

the reason this post was auto-hidden for so long was no deliberate choice by anyone and would not have happened if it more moderators were online.

Correct. I personally don’t do moderation on weekends to avoid a bad interaction ruining my days off and my time w/ my family because they don’t deserve having me in a foul mood for dealing w/ some mean person. I suspect other moderators are the same as this volunteer position that attracts way more negativity and vitriol than appreciation.

@kknechtel

Which you are apparently not actually in a position to counteract - because you can only tell us what you’re personally aware of.

That, and what I’m allowed to share.

@kknechtel

I assume you also can neither confirm nor deny whether you are a member of the CoC WG.

Why do you think that? My membership is public and I’ve personally confirmed I’m a member multiple times.

@kknechtel

Selectively flagging posts as off-topic is definitely something that can be weaponized.

If the mods disagree w/ a flag that then gets recorded and if that occurs too much that is also flagged.

@tim.one

I’d never complain directly to Brett. I suspect his SC life is hard enough already .

I’m not on the SC anymore; I didn’t run for the 2024 council after serving 5 years consecutively.

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To try and bring this back around to the topic, if people have specific suggestion on how to moderate within Discourse to enforce the PSF CoC, please make those suggestions, but moving off of Discourse or not enforcing the PSF CoC is off the table (you are obviously welcome to establish your own space if you don’t want those things; the internet is a big place with plenty of space).

As examples:

• Moderators shouldn’t edit posts, only hide them
• Moderators can edit posts to make them pass the CoC w/o meaningfully changing their meaning if they leave an explicit note an edit was made
• Keep doing what you’re doing

…, etc. And a key thing is it needs to be in line w/ what’s feasible w/ what Discourse can do, so you may have to do some homework, otherwise you might accidentally by requesting a feature that’s not possible or no one is willing to put in the work to code up.