Unofficial financial projections based on public documents (tax forms) etc. Thread dedicated purely to fact finding and making financial projections. I suggest to focus only on facts in this thread.
Summary
PSF is bleeding money, expenditures speeding up.
PSF is likely to default by 2027 and is at risk to lose its non-profit status
Rapidly rising salaries (some >170.000 USD per person per year, 50% increases in individual salaries, 40% increase overall in last reported year), rampant losses on pycon US (1.800.000 USD in 2023, 2.500.000 USD in 2024, millions of expenditure on the event alone), costly consulting contracts (ca 400.000 yearly to company âAltitude/Câ in Canada) â all of which are not offset by revenue and donations.
At current pace of losses, money will run out in 2027; there are strong indications that losses and expenditures are accelerating (remaining assets in 2023 - 4.7 million; 2024 - 3.4 million)
The key reason for losses is not the foreign grants budget, this is minuscule compared to other posts!
The main drivers are salaries, rapid increase in salaries, new costly consultancy contracts, and a single event, pycon US â all expenditures which the PSF management should have control over (including their own, rapidly rising salaries)!
In addition, the lack of documentation for why expenditures are necessary (e.g., rapid salary rises) also poses a serious risk to the US non-profit status, or for imposition of excess taxes in line with US tax code §4958.
Salaries and benefits
Salaries/benefits, and the number of salaried individuals have been rapidly rising over the last years:
In 2022, only three individuals were listed in Tax form 990 Schedule J; Deb Nicholson 104.077 in 2022. Total salaries was ca 1 million.
In 2023, 5 individuals are listed in Schedule J, with median salary of 158.905, Deb Nicholsonâs benefits going as high as 158,905 â more than a 50% increase in a single year for Deb Nicholson (!). Total salaries were ca 1.42, an increase around 40% in a single year, in line with increases in the top individual salaries.
Note: some individuals do not appear as employees, but are classed âindependent contractorsâ, numbers here are in the range 170-210 thousands.
Cost and revenue from pycon US
For pycon Us 2023, revenue of 1.025.796 USD is reported in Part VIII of the 990 form.
The cost is harder to estimate since attribution of expenditures is unclear. In part III, PSF estimates expenses of pycon 2023 by 2.141.092, and revenue over 2 million, but the latter seems discrepant with part VIII.
Given that part VIII is more granular and stringent, a more plausible calculation is assuming a loss of ca 1 million USD in 2023.
For 2024, no tax form is available, but the annual impact report of PSF quotes 2,491,000 USD expenses on python US.
Continuing the trend, expenditures in 2025 for pycon US could plausibly reach 3 million USD, at 1.5 million losses. Noting, that pycon US has already happened, and the grants freeze was announced shortly after.
Plausible: exactly this perfectly predictable scenario has happened, and now PSF is struggling to stay alive.
Grants to international Python community
This is the field âgrants to non-domestic organisations or individualsâ in Part IX:
2023 (990 tax form) â 369,027 USD
The âimpact reportâ mixes US-based non-US grants into a single sum, without providing exact sums for US vs non-US, so feels unreliable in this respect.
Consultancy contracts
In 2023, payments to the Canadian consultancy âAltitude/Câ start appearing, 370.435 USD. In Part VII, Section B of the 770, the contractor is tied to pycon US.
Based on public social media, it is plausible that Altitute/C have also been involved with pycon US in 2024 and 2025, hence a plausible fiscal projection is that:
The contract was renewed, or extended, or is an open ended contract
Expenditures on this contract have remained equal or rising
Total assets
Total net assets have been in steady decline since 2023.
2022 (990 form) â 4.793.304 USD
2023 (990 form) â 4.701.775 USD
2024 (impact report) â 3.450.000 USD
At current state of decline, PSF can survive only two years without defaulting â maybe less if expenditures in so far unreported years 2024, 2025 have been accelerating.
There is no indication that expenditures are slowing, e.g., salaries are raised 40-50% by year in the last reported tax form, expenditures on pycon US are rising, there are new consultancy contracts with substantial expenditures, e.g., Altitude/C.
Presumably this events management company? Thatâs probably more a contract to âplease organise Pycon for usâ, than what Iâd describe as consultancy.
Anyway, although this is none of my business, I am curious. The salaries to me donât seem eggregious for technical professionals in the USA, given the ever rising cost of living. If the intention is to reduce the level of assets (charities have to keep them below a certain level) that could be perfectly acceptable.
I donât know how the projection of a default for 2027 the year after next has been arrived at. But Iâm sure I donât need to tell you, this should be gotten on top of (if it is not so gotten already, which I do not assume). So out of interest, whatâs the plan?
A renewed funding / sponsorship drive?
Make PyCon 2026 USA an outdoors, attendee-funded, group Picnic / Pot Luck in a park somewhere?
Reluctantly cut back on salaries and head count :(?
Are there savings right there? Should PyCon really be PyCon USA, every single year? Why not send PyCon on the road around the globe, particularly to those nations in which good safe conferences can be organised on substantially smaller budgets than in America?
Iâd love there being a Pycon in different parts of the world, and if it helps to save money Iâm even more for it.
Perhaps look into slight budget cuts of those making 100k+, and look at wether increasing payments by 40-50% is a good idea. I donât exactly know how the situation in the US is, but perhaps some work could even be committed in other countries, perhaps saving money.
Iâm no financial expert, so imma just say that having a Pycon outside the US would be sick.
Itâd either need a local Python user group (that already organises a country wide PyCon) to step up, or a local events company to do the same job as Altitude/C in the country in question.
And itâd be good to see a break down (a Py Chart !) for the spend on PyCon USA. The amount for subsidised travel and accommodation, isnât going to go down under this plan, and could even go up.
And then thereâs the politics. I donât know what the expectations are of whoever contributed those net assets in the first place. Nor what they were promised. But big companies will be a lot more inclined to financially support a typical industry conference, in an under cover centre, that they can have a company stand or booth at, and take photos at, than they are a pot luck in a public park (which does not rule that out - PyCon Touches Grass could still happen too!).
The current executive director joined the PSF in April 2022.
Assuming they were only paid for the remaining 9 months of 2022, the 2023 increase is more like 14%, not 50%.
(This also assumes the figures are otherwise like-for-like, but they could well not be. I donât know about US salaries, but in Finland benefits usually improve in your second year of employment.)
Your posting history does not encourage me to take you seriously.
You are right to ask for details and poke holes in the foundationâs reporting, but doomsaying is something I would rather avoid. Iâd rather see facts, time, analysis, and only then ad hoc âpolitical pressureâ and that in minute amounts.
Incorrect. $1M8 was the cost to run that PyCon, not a loss.
Granted, the revenue/income were not precisely reported, only that the âevent ran at a slight lossâ.
Franz, you made an angry thread insisting PSF financial/tax documents werenât available. You were shown that you were wrong about that, and told where to find the information you wanted.
Rather than retract your initial accusations about the PSF, you moved on to another thread to demand information about how many people the PSF employs/pays and to demand information about PyCon costs. You once again got some things wrong in that thread, and rather than retract the accusations you made based on your misunderstandings/wrong assumptions, you now have made another thread full of extreme allegations about the PSFâs finances.
I think you should step back and consider what you would think of someone who behaved that way toward you or a project you were involved in, and whether you would think they were acting in genuine good faith. Then perhaps you could reflect on how these threads make you look.
âPyCon USâ has been held in Canada a couple of times. And EuroPython is held in Europe. It seems strange to omit those facts. Especially as someone with the same name as you has been a presenter at EuroPython in the past. Python has one major conference in North America each year, and one major conference in Europe each year. There are other events under âPyConâ branding, too, such as PyCon Africa and PyCon AU.
You were told why the 2024 tax document isnât available yet. Because it hasnât been filed yet, because it isnât due yet. For those who didnât see it, the relevant post is below.
Somethingâs made you feel strongly. Why not drop this particular approach, take a day or two, and make a crowd funding campaign to rescue any projects the PSF has been unable to award grants to, that are now at risk?
Youâve said your piece, now leave it to them. If the PSF goes bust as you predict, you can definitely say âI told you soâ.
that PSF is apparently centralizing even further by denying international communities their grants, while at the same time spending approx half its budget on a single conference.
That the grant freeze comes without warning and sends the international community reeling - the many international conferences are impacted by this severely.
That organizers of international communities - many of whom have gone out of pocket - are now told by PSF (which has spent multimillions on a single conference) that their conference will not get 1000, 5000, or similar small amounts of support they direly need.
Compare the numbers below.
Do you think, @JamesParrott, this is a good reason to feel strongly about the PSF budget?
Do you think this is good reason to ask for projections for 2025, 2026, and to ask where the money actually goes?
More on the grant freeze in the other thread âthe PSF has paused our grants programâ
âPyCon USâ has been held in Canada a couple of times. And EuroPython is held in Europe. It seems strange to omit those facts
I do think it is clear to most people in the forum that âother python conferences existâ. Implying this is intentional misdirection feels strange at best.
We are talking here about conferences the PSF is directly organizing, topic is the PSF budget after all. Afaik there is only one.
But, we can also take a balance sheet view on the expenditures 2023, according to the 990 tax sheet draft, and include conferences that PSF is indirectly funding through the grants programme.
So letâs compare expenditures by PSF (990 tax sheet draft for 2023)
pycon US - 2,141,092 dollar
pycon AU - 10,000 dollar
DjangoCon Africa - 9,000 dollar
Which numbers are bigger?
Noting again that afaik the only conference directly organized by PSF is pycon US.
you made an angry thread insisting PSF financial/tax documents werenât available. You were shown that you were wrong about that, and told where to find the information you wanted.
You were told why the 2024 tax document isnât available yet.
Pointing out the contradiction above in what people say:
- âyou are wrong, financial docs are available and you were shown where they areâ
âyou are wrong to ask for them because they are not due yetâ
Are they available now or not?
Regarding âtaxes not dueâ - you can still have projections, budgets, etc. The tax docs is only what you submit to IRS (US tax authority). A normal organisation has internal budgets and projections available far ahead of the time whre they have to submit taxes.
It is reasonable to ask for budgets, statements, projections, afaik these do not exist, but very much should.
I think it would be honest and transparent, as you like to request of others, if you stated clearly that you hold these opinions about the PSF since way before having any data on finances or the pause of the grants.
In your Nominee Statement you already propose a hollowing out of the PSF. Now it seems youâre just seeking evidence to support your positions, making mistakes in the process, all the while being deeply disrespectful to other community members. Sounds like a campaign strategy, doesnât it?
At this point, I think we should consider answering the valid questions without being subjected to further abuse. That would either mean a change in communication style, or a (temporary?) suspension of communication rights.
@devdanzin , shocking revelation: Franz Kiraly, who has long been campaigning to empower international communities, raises concern about disempowerment of international communities!
It would have been honest and transparent if Franz Kiraly had said that he is campaigning for empowering international communities, before speaking out on empowering international communities!
If we want to be petty: the submission of my nomination statement was after the announcement of the grant freeze. Grant freeze or attempted clawback is also not new, but has happened low-key far before the current blanket shot that is hitting the entire world.
That has also informed my stance that we need to treat all local communities as equals!
hollowing out of the PSF
This frames empowerment of the disenfranchised as âtaking something awayâ from those in privilege.
Making the worldwide python ecosystem more equitable and fair is not âhollowing outâ.
I think we should consider answering the valid questions
I agree! Please anyone who reads this, consider answering the valid questions!
(temporary?) suspension of communication rights.
Thanks for upholding freedom of speech.
BDFL
@guido, I should also add I respect you very much for what you have done and created.
I do value your opinion and apologize for the edge in my tone.
Still, I think you are not on the right side of this discussion, and you should especially not tell people who to vote from, especially given that you are retired from your âBenevolent Dictatorâ role at Python.
Projections based on assumptions, incomplete knowledge, misunderstandings, and ignorance. Mostly bad assumptions, in fact.
Just to make my position clear: Iâve been on the PSF Board of Directors ~9 years since its creation, including 2017-2019 and 2020-2023. I was the interim General Manager (unpaid! So donât worry about that expenditure!) between Ewaâs departure as Executive Director in 2021 and the Boardâs hiring of Deb in 2022. Iâve been a PyCon US volunteer for many, many years. I know a lot of the things Iâm explaining here first-hand, but I donât just rely on my personal knowledge here. I donât have special insights in what the Board or the staff have been doing over the last two years. These things are knowable and discoverable for anyone.
Wow, that was a very quick departure of âonly factsâ. Sure, expenditures are speeding up, because the PSF is spending money. Thatâs what itâs for. The last couple of years the PSF has gotten grants for specific things, which it spends on those things. Things like the Developers-in-Residence and the PyPI Engineers. Those expenditures do not come from general funds, and itâs not simply a matter of not spending the money. The funds are earmarked, and canât just be used for something else. Moreover, the cost of these programs is balanced with the sponsorship income from those programs. Lowering the cost would lower the sponsorship. You canât look at a single number below the line and extrapolate.
You claim to be concerned because the PSF set a firm limit on outgoing money (the PSF grants âdrying upâ) â even though the pause on grants is because the PSF spent the budgeted amount â and this leads you to conclude itâs âbleeding moneyâ and âlikely to defaultâ? The PSFâs sponsorship income is always uncertain, because itâs largely reliant on corporate sponsors and some of those are surprisingly unwilling to fund the ecosystem and community.
But the PSF is in a position to reasonably balance its expenses to compensate, which it is doing by setting a budget for the grants program. Other programs are directly reliant on corporate sponsorship (like the Developers-in-Residence), and those programs will only exist as long as (corporate) sponsorship is available. The financial and operational stewardship is done with care and deliberation, so that if it turns out money is no longer available, the operations can be ramped down responsibly.
Letâs dig into those numbers, shall we!
The PSF has always been frugal with salaries, and itâs long had the policy of providing solid benefits and a pleasant work environment rather than paying top dollar. Itâs also largely relied on volunteer efforts for a lot of the important things. Itâs always been hiring staff with great care and deliberation, only taking on new people when itâs absolutely necessary. New people being hired over the last couple of years is because the work has grown significantly over the last ten years.
Despite being frugal, the PSF does have to pay fair wages, even if only to be able to attract and retain people. And the PSF has some of the best people working for it despite not offering top salaries. With salaries (salaries, not total compensation!) in tech jobs going as high as $400k and higher, pardon me for not clutching my pearls at $170k. The same goes for the other âhighâ salaries: they may seem high for Europe or other markets, but they are definitely not high in the markets the PSF is hiring in. You get what you pay for.
PyCon US costs a lot of money, yes. Large venues cost a lot. The services in large venues cost a lot. Economy of scale does not apply to large events, as anyone who has tried to grow a small-to-medium-sized event will tell you. But rest assured! PyCon US did not lose $1.8M in 2023 or $2.5M in 2024. Those were the costs, not the losses. The PyCon staff (who are mostly PSF staff) are always trying to manage the cost, considering what trade-offs are possible without negatively affecting the conference experience too much. Itâs very difficult! Things like whether there should be an information booth, or breakfast, or whether the coffee break should be a half hour or an hour, or whether coffee should be available all through the day. (The difference in cost is staggering.) The only realistic options for significantly reducing PyCon USâs costs would be to scale it down significantly, or cut significant portions of the event. Those options would also significantly reduce sponsorship income, of course, even if the ticket price wouldnât be changed. And even though I think those are all pretty bad options, those things are still carefully considered and weighed.
As for âcostly consulting contractsâ: Altitude/C are the A/V folks PyCon US has used most years since PyCon US was in Montreal (2014, I believe, although I think the company had a different name at the time). I say âmost yearsâ because the contract is always put up for bids each year. For 2022, the first in-person year after the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, Altitude/C wasnât an option (I believe it was pandemic concerns, but I donât remember exactly how it played out), and the A/V contract went to the venueâs in-house supplier. As I recall it ended up significantly costlier, but they were certainly significantly less flexible, and the quality was significantly worse. PSF staff had to touch up and re-edit so many videos, which is not normally their work or their core competency. People eager for 2022âs videos may remember how long it took for them to become available on YouTube. Every penny spent on Altitude/C has been worth it, for the community and for PyCon USâs financial situation.
You canât predict trends or even determine the current pace of losses based on two data points from last year. But rest assured, the PSF has already made it clear that they are working on this. For example, by holding the PSF Grants WG to the budget limits they set.
Itâs not minuscule, it is in fact a significant part of the PSFâs general funds spending. Funds earmarked for specific projects cannot be spent on grants, other projects, or general expenditures. Pay close attention to the term âdonor restrictionsâ in the annual report.
The main driver are expenditures that are matched with income â restricted funds. Since 2020, the PSF has hired five highly technical, well-regarded professionals using targeted donations (the Developers-in-Residence, the Security Developer-in-Residence and the PyPI Safety & Security Engineer.) The PSF has also run a variety of projects to produce improvements to PyPI with grants from different institutions. Disregarding for the moment what effect trying to skimp on people wouldâve had, saving money on these people or projects would mean less grant and sponsorship income.
The incorrect, blind, and willfully ignorant assumption that ânumber goes up, therefor they get paid too muchâ, is frankly insulting.
Just because you didnât get the information you wanted over the Labor Day weekend doesnât mean thereâs anything here that the IRS would be concerned about. The PSF has been independently audited for the last couple of years, which is a requirement for government grants. I havenât been on the Board for a few years, but the audit reviews Iâve been in made it clear the PSFâs record at the time was squeaky clean.
As I recall, in 2022 the PSF had 8 members of staff, plus our first Developer-in-Residence as contractor. Deb started some time in April that year.
As was already pointed out, Debâs salary didnât increase by 50%, because she wasnât paid for a full yearâs work in 2022. Nor did other salaries grow nearly as much as you imagine. Instead, the PSF hired more people. I believe over 2023 the PSF hired the new Communications Manager role, as well as the Security Developer in Residence and the PyPI Safety & Security Engineer. I believe the PSF hired one or two more roles in 2022, but I donât remember the details. (Also two new Developers-in-Residence, but as I recall they started early/late December, so they wonât have made much of a dent in the number you are so concerned about.) Two of those roles, I will point out, were funded by restricted donations. Total salaries only going up by 40% given those new roles is, frankly, quite frugal.
That is correct. All three Developers-in-Residence are contractors, because they are not US citizens or residents. The PSF cannot hire them as employees. That means they do not get the secondary benefits that employees get, and are compensated accordingly. If you have concerns about the salary ranges and selection process for Developers-in-Residence, thatâs actually been the Steering Councilâs authority, since it comes from funds allocated specifically to CPython.
These assumptions are so laughable I donât even know where to begin. Linear extrapolation is absurd, even if the PSF staff and Board werenât actively paying attention. None of this is even remotely plausible. How about instead of assuming ridiculous things, you wait for actual numbers? Sure, it may take more than a weekend, even an extra long holiday weekend, but itâs worth the wait.
I hope expenditures arenât slowing! The PSF is spending money on things that need money spent on them. It would be sad if the PSF had to stop. But I do know the PSF will stop if the money isnât going to be available, because as I pointed out, a lot of the expenditures are from targeted donations, which are locked down before spending the money.
Salaries arenât rising any more than market demands (and I think significantly less, actually). PyCon US expenses are constantly re-evaluated (for example, PyCon US dropped the âonlineâ component in 2025. In 2026 itâll have fewer sprint days, and it might find an external venue for those in the future). The Altitude/C contract isnât a new expenditures, and just part of PyCon US expenses â and one of the best ways PyCon US spends money; just ask anyone who has dealt with A/V at PyCon US, or was waiting for PyCon US videos in 2022.
I hope that alleviates any concerns readers of your post may have had.
Franz, youâve made your viewpoint and your approach crystal clear. I think everyone understands where you are coming from.
People often advocate for or against candidates in elections. This is to be expected.
Youâve put a lot of energy into raising the visibility of your concerns, your cause, and therefore your candidacy. People will respond. Your should encourage your supporters to add their voices.
!) for the spend on PyCon USA. The amount for subsidised travel and accommodation, isnât going to go down under this plan, and could even go up.