Python LTS and maintenance cycles

This is a very good example.

This is exactly the commercial activity, Yes. You are putting the open-source software on the market in this case. And yes you will be obliged to provide security fixes and generally comply with other requirements. Otherwise no-one will want to use your software and pay you for it. You will have to factor-in the cost of doing it in your prices.

But if you donate your software to an open-source foundation with good and vendor neurtral governance and THEY will release the software not you (i.e. put the software on the market) then you can earn money as much as you want.

I hope a lot of those kind of moves will happen.

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That summarizes your sense of alarm and urgency, I think!

For those outside the EU, regulations are normal in the EU when offering commercial products or services. For example, in the US, businesses are self-regulated with assistance from government institutions. There’s nothing new here, just a bit of standardization. And I’m not a lawyer either!

Thats fine, it’s the intent to make a profiit. profit != revenue. You really should read the article I linked to in this thread. It will go over all of your cases.

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I did, and I remain confused by several points, including jurisdiction, and exactly what counts as commercial. That’s why I kept asking. I did read the article.

Does it make a difference if my clients are in the US rather than Europe? Or what if I’m not actually using this open source software with those clients at all, but they were attracted to me because my GitHub profile looks like bathroom tiles? It is VERY UNCLEAR what constitutes ā€œmaking a profitā€ or ā€œputting software on the marketā€ here.

That’s your idea of beneficial? That sole programmers can’t release any of their own software any more, and we have to release every tiny thing through some sort of buffer organization??

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Yes. It’s beneficial for end users. They will have more secure software, because those who won’t be able to patch it or won’t decide to let others take care of good processes and governance will go out of buisness.

It’s not ā€œbufferā€ - it’s the governance, vendor neutrality, promise to keep the software updated and secure even if you personally got hit by the bus tomorrow.

Yes. It 's not good for some companies and people. But good for society in general.

And that was the main driver for the regulation.

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My question is, what do they mean by ā€œmarketā€? My everyday person’s
understanding is that a market is a place where people buy and sell
stuff. If you put something out into the world for anyone to use and
don’t expect anything in return, I don’t see how that is ā€œputting it on
a marketā€.

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I think everyone is over thinking it, especially those not used to being in a country with any regulation

Basically if you are effectively selling a license to use your software within the EU

Then that’s basically what they mean by putting it in the market

If you are just being paid to maintain it or provide support then since it isn’t licensed you won’t be covered

And of course if the code isn’t lisensed eithin EU jurisdiction you will be fine

So effectively think of it like this:

  • Python doesn’t sell a license for its code so it wouldn’t be covered
  • SAAS companies also don’t sell a license for their code so they wouldn’t be covered
  • Red hat sell a license for the maintained version of their packages such as Linux so they would be covered
  • Google builds many open source projects, their libraries wouldn’t be covered normally since they don’t sell you a license, however their libraries are part of their products which they do effectively license to end users. Meaning they are obligated for this reason

Essentially do you have a commercial arrangement with a customer within the EU that makes you obligated to maintain their installation of your code. Not just a sponsorship to update the source code, not just consultancy on how to use the core but a direct and clearly defined obligation

Just like how GDPR and WEPP work. Just because a company uses your services doesn’t make you automatically obligated

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This enormous sidebar strikes me as a little unfair to the OP, who has wanted to talk about a pretty different subject matter.

I’m seeing appeals to authority (ā€œpeople smarter than meā€), and I’ll just note that the moment I see that, I lose a significant amount of trust for the speaker. There’s a big difference between deferring gracefully to the knowledge of experts and answering an expert opinion with a vague hand wave.

For 99% of developers, there’s no need to worry about new government standards until they actually materialize, but I am not really going to try to convince anyone who has already decided otherwise.

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Everyone, this discussion is now firmly off-topic. Unless there’s anything else to be added to the issue of LTS/extended support [1], let’s move the remaining discussion elsewhere.


  1. which I doubt ā†©ļøŽ

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It seems to me that your assertion is based on what I see as a flawed comparison to the maintenance and ongoing support of operating systems in a commercial context.

Generally speaking LTS releases with many years of support require a sizable sustaining engineering department to pull off because there are huge amounts of effort spent back porting critical fixes and generally dragging that antediluvian version forward in time to match the challenges of the current day.

This feels like a mismatch with the reality of the CPython core team to me, much less as many have cited, the small army of library maintainers already struggling to support the current limited support version matrix.

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